Comments on: What Does a Healthy Church Look Like? http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/ Attempting to connect life to what matters most Wed, 23 May 2012 03:39:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jim Martin http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8214 Jim Martin Sun, 16 May 2010 11:16:37 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8214 A.Amos Love, You make some very good points. I appreciate your desire to take the Bible seriously. I also appreciate your desire to name what you believe has caused so many churches in our day to experience less than what God has called us to be. I continue to appreciate all of these good men and women, world-wide, who are serious about being Jesus followers and who want their communities to be islands of health and hope. Thanks for your comment. A.Amos Love,
You make some very good points. I appreciate your desire to take the Bible seriously. I also appreciate your desire to name what you believe has caused so many churches in our day to experience less than what God has called us to be.

I continue to appreciate all of these good men and women, world-wide, who are serious about being Jesus followers and who want their communities to be islands of health and hope.

Thanks for your comment.

]]> By: A. Amos Love http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8213 A. Amos Love Fri, 14 May 2010 21:55:03 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8213 Jim Depends on what you mean by "Church." In my experience there is no such thing as a healthy church... Run by man... Lot's of "Spiritual Abuse." Always... There are NO healthy - 501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporations - Known as "Church." How did we wind up calling a $ Corporation "The Church of God? Should we call a $Corporation "The Church of God?" Did Jesus shed His Blood for a building, an institution, an organization, a denomination, a $ Corporation? NO... He shed His Blood for His Church, His people. Now... In - Jesus is the head of the body, (the ekklesia, the called out one's), The Church. Very healthy indeed... ;-) Is it possible the reason "Burnout" is such a problem for today's "Pastor/Leader" is they have found themselves with a "Title" and "Position" NOT found in the Bible? Did anyone have the “Title” “pastor” in the Bible? Was anyone ordained a “pastor” in the Bible? Any congregations "led" by a “pastor” in the Bible? And every “pastor” I’ve met also had the “Title” “Reverend.” Does anyone have the “Title” Reverend in the Bible? In my experience... Titles become Idols. Pastors become Masters. Heavy weights on shoulders NOT easy to lay down. Jesus taught “His Disciples” NOT to be called “Master/Leader” For you have “ONE” “Master/Leader” The Christ. Mat 23:8-10 KJV Ezekiel 14:1-7, speaks about "Idols of the Heart," and now God will speak to us according to the "Idols of our Heart." And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall “hear my voice;” and there shall be "ONE" fold, and "ONE" shepherd. John 10:16 One Fold - One Shepherd - One Voice. If Not Now, When? Be blessed in your search for Truth... Jesus. [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us '0 which is not a hashcash value. Jim

Depends on what you mean by “Church.”

In my experience there is no such thing as a healthy church… Run by man… Lot’s of “Spiritual Abuse.” Always…

There are NO healthy – 501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax $ deductible, Religious $ Corporations – Known as “Church.”

How did we wind up calling a $ Corporation “The Church of God?

Should we call a $Corporation “The Church of God?”

Did Jesus shed His Blood for a building, an institution, an organization, a denomination, a $ Corporation?

NO… He shed His Blood for His Church, His people.

Now… In – Jesus is the head of the body, (the ekklesia, the called out one’s), The Church.

Very healthy indeed… ;-)

Is it possible the reason “Burnout” is such
a problem for today’s “Pastor/Leader” is
they have found themselves with a
“Title” and “Position” NOT found in the Bible?

Did anyone have the “Title” “pastor” in the Bible?
Was anyone ordained a “pastor” in the Bible?
Any congregations “led” by a “pastor” in the Bible?

And every “pastor” I’ve met also had
the “Title” “Reverend.”

Does anyone have the “Title” Reverend in the Bible?

In my experience…

Titles become Idols.
Pastors become Masters.

Heavy weights on shoulders NOT easy to lay down.

Jesus taught “His Disciples”
NOT to be called “Master/Leader”
For you have “ONE” “Master/Leader” The Christ.
Mat 23:8-10 KJV

Ezekiel 14:1-7, speaks about “Idols of the Heart,”
and now God will speak to us according to
the “Idols of our Heart.”

And other sheep I have,
which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring,
and they shall “hear my voice;”
and there shall be “ONE” fold,
and “ONE” shepherd.
John 10:16

One Fold – One Shepherd – One Voice.
If Not Now, When?

Be blessed in your search for Truth… Jesus.

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ’0 which is not a hashcash value.

]]> By: JimMartin http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8212 JimMartin Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:35:18 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8212 James, Sounds like you have been a part of some very discouraging churches over the years. It can be absolutely exasperating. And---so discouraging. Unfortunately, what you have described is the reality for far too many people. Are there healthy, vibrant fellowships out there? Yes, there really are. A lot of people long to be a part of such churches but either don\'t live where these fellowships are or are just worn out and frustrated from the kind of experience you describe. I am glad you posted this James. Hope you will continue to come back to this blog and be a voice. Thanks. James,
Sounds like you have been a part of some very discouraging churches over the years. It can be absolutely exasperating. And—so discouraging. Unfortunately, what you have described is the reality for far too many people.

Are there healthy, vibrant fellowships out there? Yes, there really are. A lot of people long to be a part of such churches but either don\'t live where these fellowships are or are just worn out and frustrated from the kind of experience you describe.

I am glad you posted this James. Hope you will continue to come back to this blog and be a voice. Thanks.

]]> By: James http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8211 James Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:55:00 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8211 I've been a part of small unhealthy churches for a long time. I did my best to help them move in a healthy direction and after 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the DNA of a small unhealthy church cannot be changed. I am so throughly disgusted with the church that I will never be back. It's high time for the church leaders to read "The Slumber of Christianity" and if they are too lazy to read (as most are) they can get it in audio format. From my experience, if they will read/listen to it, most will reject what it has to say. However, if they will listen with open minds and open hearts, it can bring the repentance and restoration that is so desperately missing. I've been a part of small unhealthy churches for a long time. I did my best to help them move in a healthy direction and after 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the DNA of a small unhealthy church cannot be changed. I am so throughly disgusted with the church that I will never be back. It's high time for the church leaders to read "The Slumber of Christianity" and if they are too lazy to read (as most are) they can get it in audio format. From my experience, if they will read/listen to it, most will reject what it has to say. However, if they will listen with open minds and open hearts, it can bring the repentance and restoration that is so desperately missing.

]]> By: Allan Jenkins http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8210 Allan Jenkins Wed, 06 May 2009 18:01:02 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8210 Jim,The nature of the question brings must reflection on my part.  One of the dimensions of a church is when the people seek to be healthy but the leaders have created a culture that stifles it in some way.  It is stifled because doctrinal purity is put over genuine and authentic living.  Such a situation can cause anger, resentment and division as people strive to be healthy.  In response to the healthy question there can be two dynamics working against each other.  Jim,The nature of the question brings must reflection on my part.  One of the dimensions of a church is when the people seek to be healthy but the leaders have created a culture that stifles it in some way.  It is stifled because doctrinal purity is put over genuine and authentic living.  Such a situation can cause anger, resentment and division as people strive to be healthy.  In response to the healthy question there can be two dynamics working against each other. 

]]> By: Jim Martin http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8209 Jim Martin Wed, 06 May 2009 17:43:44 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8209 Brandon, Very good and very important!  Optimistic. Brandon, Very good and very important!  Optimistic.

]]> By: Brandon http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8208 Brandon Mon, 04 May 2009 18:48:52 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8208 Optimistic. They have a sense that the best years are ahead.  Optimistic. They have a sense that the best years are ahead. 

]]> By: Jim Martin http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8207 Jim Martin Sun, 03 May 2009 02:26:36 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8207 Jim<em>,</em>Very good!  I think you make a great point.  There are not perfect churches--anywhere.  Either today or in the first century.   At the same time, as you note, there are healthy and unhealthy churches.  There are churches that are so internally focused that it stifles any serious dreaming re missions, ministry to the poor etc.  There are some churches that are so unhealthy they manage to practically destroy their ministers.   I'm thankful that you and Bernie are with a group that really doesn has some health and love that characterizes it.   I appreciate you very much. Jim,Very good!  I think you make a great point.  There are not perfect churches–anywhere.  Either today or in the first century.   At the same time, as you note, there are healthy and unhealthy
churches.  There are churches that are so internally focused that it
stifles any serious dreaming re missions, ministry to the poor etc. 
There are some churches that are so unhealthy they manage to
practically destroy their ministers.   I’m thankful that you and Bernie are with a group that really doesn has some health and love that characterizes it.   I appreciate you very much.

]]> By: Tucker http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8206 Tucker Sat, 02 May 2009 15:43:35 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8206 I heard it said once, "We have to quit inviting people to church, and invite people to Christ!" The church never saved anyone.  We know what Christ does.If the church could look as much like Christ, that would be the perfect church.  At the same time, people being real, knowing the only way to be perfect is in Christ.  We all have our baggage, and that is the story to tell, its how we got rid of our baggage that is the story.   The perfect church is the one that lets Christ in.  Unfortunately, I find I too often tell him to stay outside until I can perfect myself and straighten up the rest of these folk.  I heard it said once, "We have to quit inviting people to church, and invite people to Christ!" The church never saved anyone.  We know what Christ does.If the church could look as much like Christ, that would be the perfect church.  At the same time, people being real, knowing the only way to be perfect is in Christ.  We all have our baggage, and that is the story to tell, its how we got rid of our baggage that is the story.   The perfect church is the one that lets Christ in.  Unfortunately, I find I too often tell him to stay outside until I can perfect myself and straighten up the rest of these folk. 

]]> By: Jim Mauldin http://godhungry.org/2009/04/30/what-does-a-healthy-church-look-like/comment-page-1/#comment-8205 Jim Mauldin Sat, 02 May 2009 13:16:18 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2505#comment-8205 Jim; Great questions and great responses. When I first read the question, I guess the "old" me came out and said, "I'm not sure there is such a thing as a healthy church." See, I was equating healthy as perfect. There is no perfect church. The church is made up of sick people, and I'm one of them. However, while we won't ever find a perfect church we can be healthy. Healthy doesn't mean without illness. Jim, I've known you a long time and regard you as healthy both physically and spiritually. I also know that you get colds and also sometimes struggle spiritually as we all do. But you are still healthy. The "unhealthy" church that I was a part of was extremely internally focused. it was all about their differences and individual preferences. Looking back, I think they enjoyed their conflict. They were never a family and didn't want to be! The church where I am now is healthy. We're a long way from perfect but we love each other and anyone we have the opportunity to touch with the love of Jesus. We truly live by the old definition of J-O-Y we learned as kids. ("Jesus first, Yourself last, and Others in between") Jim, sorry for going on and on in this response, but thanks for the opportunity to do so. Love ya Bro. Jim;
Great questions and great responses. When I first read the question, I guess the “old” me came out and said, “I’m not sure there is such a thing as a healthy church.” See, I was equating healthy as perfect. There is no perfect church. The church is made up of sick people, and I’m one of them. However, while we won’t ever find a perfect church we can be healthy. Healthy doesn’t mean without illness. Jim, I’ve known you a long time and regard you as healthy both physically and spiritually. I also know that you get colds and also sometimes struggle spiritually as we all do. But you are still healthy.

The “unhealthy” church that I was a part of was extremely internally focused. it was all about their differences and individual preferences. Looking back, I think they enjoyed their conflict. They were never a family and didn’t want to be!

The church where I am now is healthy. We’re a long way from perfect but we love each other and anyone we have the opportunity to touch with the love of Jesus. We truly live by the old definition of J-O-Y we learned as kids. (“Jesus first, Yourself last, and Others in between”)

Jim, sorry for going on and on in this response, but thanks for the opportunity to do so. Love ya Bro.

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