Comments on: Question: Self-promotion or Self-less Service? http://godhungry.org/2009/06/29/question-self-promotion-or-self-less-service/ Attempting to connect life to what matters most Sun, 05 Sep 2010 18:03:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: KerryWhalen http://godhungry.org/2009/06/29/question-self-promotion-or-self-less-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6658 KerryWhalen Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:06:32 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2802#comment-6658 Jummbo7 - thank you for what you wrote. I'm part of a little Church that is trying to shed the whole "performance" & "numbers" game & just (as you so aptly put it) "make it all about Him [so] HE will draw all men unto HIMSELF"". we're still not sure what it looks or will look like - but it is exciting being part of it - at the moment I think it just looks like "letting go". Stopping all the performance/marketing/trying to do it all, & waiting to see what He will do. Scary - but wonderful! (& no, there's not much money going 'round, but we're not collapsing in a heap either... a good exercise in trust!) Jummbo7 – thank you for what you wrote. I'm part of a little Church that is trying to shed the whole "performance" & "numbers" game & just (as you so aptly put it) "make it all about Him [so] HE will draw all men unto HIMSELF"". we're still not sure what it looks or will look like – but it is exciting being part of it – at the moment I think it just looks like "letting go". Stopping all the performance/marketing/trying to do it all, & waiting to see what He will do. Scary – but wonderful! (& no, there's not much money going 'round, but we're not collapsing in a heap either… a good exercise in trust!)

]]> By: Jummbo7 http://godhungry.org/2009/06/29/question-self-promotion-or-self-less-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6657 Jummbo7 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:12:37 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2802#comment-6657 Churches that are trying to attract people as there number 1 priority often fall into the trap of competitiveness! When numbers are how you discern the health of your church the groundwork for competitiveness is laid, this is so dangerous! Competition when taken to it's extreme is murderous! The best possible outcome theoretically is the elimination of your rival (see Cain and Abel), so to be at even the beginning of this process is fundamentally unhealthy! Jesus said "without Me you can do nothing" and "In me you can do all things" I believe that the number 1 priority for every church is to cultivate an environment that is attractive to the manifest presence of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! ( Not people ) Those who are lost and seeking will find an environment like that irresistible! And when we make it all about Him HE will draw all men unto HIMSELF! Lets become less entertaining and more transforming, less personality driven and more Spirit led! I have a feeling that there will be no stressing about bills in a church like that! Churches that are trying to attract people as there number 1 priority often fall into the trap of competitiveness! When numbers are how you discern the health of your church the groundwork for competitiveness is laid, this is so dangerous! Competition when taken to it's extreme is murderous! The best possible outcome theoretically is the elimination of your rival (see Cain and Abel), so to be at even the beginning of this process is fundamentally unhealthy! Jesus said "without Me you can do nothing" and "In me you can do all things" I believe that the number 1 priority for every church is to cultivate an environment that is attractive to the manifest presence of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! ( Not people ) Those who are lost and seeking will find an environment like that irresistible! And when we make it all about Him HE will draw all men unto HIMSELF! Lets become less entertaining and more transforming, less personality driven and more Spirit led! I have a feeling that there will be no stressing about bills in a church like that!

]]> By: DrSam http://godhungry.org/2009/06/29/question-self-promotion-or-self-less-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6656 DrSam Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:36:49 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2802#comment-6656 I was a pastor/church planter for 25 years and I can say that the church certainly attracts many narcissistic leaders. I was probably guilty of being narcissistic also. I've noticed that in the church you have all kinds of narcissistic leaders. You may have the scholar kind that prides himself he knows so much of scripture, original languages, and Christian classical authors and Church Fathers, etc. You may also have the Performer who presents himself as a SuperStar celebrity and no one can touch. You may have the PowerMan who gets his jollies from control. You may have the leader who is trying to get his Daddy and Mommy Love Tank filled from the congregation "adoring" them. You also have the Missionary-Poor-Me-I Suffer-More-than-you-because-I'm-better type of person who has taken a vow of poverty and sees himself as a victim, often begging for money in the name of Jesus. We could go on and on. After I left the game of that system I had to reinvent myself. No one wanted to hire a former pastor/church planter. I went into the secular field of professional psychology so I could help a wider variety of people. I find that I am reaching many more people (Christian and non-Christian), congregations, and pastors, etc. I can corroborate at how rampant narcissism is among church leadership. If any of you are interested in learning a little about some of the faces of narcissism go to: <a href="http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/how-to-spot-a-narcissist/" rel="nofollow">http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/...</a> I was a pastor/church planter for 25 years and I can say that the church certainly attracts many narcissistic leaders. I was probably guilty of being narcissistic also. I've noticed that in the church you have all kinds of narcissistic leaders. You may have the scholar kind that prides himself he knows so much of scripture, original languages, and Christian classical authors and Church Fathers, etc. You may also have the Performer who presents himself as a SuperStar celebrity and no one can touch. You may have the PowerMan who gets his jollies from control. You may have the leader who is trying to get his Daddy and Mommy Love Tank filled from the congregation "adoring" them. You also have the Missionary-Poor-Me-I Suffer-More-than-you-because-I'm-better type of person who has taken a vow of poverty and sees himself as a victim, often begging for money in the name of Jesus. We could go on and on.

After I left the game of that system I had to reinvent myself. No one wanted to hire a former pastor/church planter. I went into the secular field of professional psychology so I could help a wider variety of people. I find that I am reaching many more people (Christian and non-Christian), congregations, and pastors, etc.
I can corroborate at how rampant narcissism is among church leadership.

If any of you are interested in learning a little about some of the faces of narcissism go to:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/...

]]> By: josenmiami http://godhungry.org/2009/06/29/question-self-promotion-or-self-less-service/comment-page-1/#comment-6655 josenmiami Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:25:41 +0000 http://godhungry.org/?p=2802#comment-6655 yes, I agree. It is called Christian narcisism and it is rampant in the u.s. church. Unfortuneatly the religious free market demands competition and self promotion in order to survive and support oneself financially in the church system. I hope someone can think of a better way ... yes, I agree. It is called Christian narcisism and it is rampant in the u.s. church. Unfortuneatly the religious free market demands competition and self promotion in order to survive and support oneself financially in the church system. I hope someone can think of a better way …

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